If someone five years ago had told me that Ksenia Sobchak would write a good book, I would have burst out laughing. And if this someone added that over time Ksenia Sobchak would seem to me like a ray of light in Russian society, I would burst into tears.
But such a visionary was not found then, so it was too late to laugh and cry. Today's Russia has come to such a state that Sobchak is still very, very much against its background. At least annoying idiots who are in the majority. The just-published "Encyclopedia of the Loch" in the shocking design of the reckless Andrei Bartenev, with all its excesses and extremes, seems to me a serious slap in the face of public taste - and a wonderful diagnosis for the country. And the person who wrote it often looks not a grotesque, but a tragic figure, since he perfectly understands everything that is happening. And with her, and around.
Russia is a country of genetic trash
Ksenia, let's immediately define the terms. As I understood from the book, a sucker for you is a person who is most concerned with self-presentation and pressure on others. He desperately wants to dominate everyone at any cost
- Correctly. There is a whole system of definitions, but they all fit into yours: a person for whom self-presentation is above all.
And all this, as a rule, is not suitable means
- Not necessary. The funds are often the most serious. In principle, this is an international phenomenon, but Russia is an ideal training ground for observing locals. They have exceptional freedom here. This happened as a result of a number of social experiments, the last of which - the rain of petrodollars - has not yet ended, despite the crisis.
But why exactly Russia? I explain this to myself by the fact that people have nothing special to do, there are no common values - and therefore they are busy with self-affirmation at the expense of a neighbor
- I would not discount 1917. And then 1937. Two consecutive destruction of the elite, plus the war, plus regular post-war study campaigns - and we are very good at poisoning - led to the fact that Russia has become a country of genetic rabble.
But a person who makes such statements can survive only if he also includes himself …
- But of what! I'm not just one of the suckers, I'm a horse womb, as I admit on the first page. The symbol of all-Russian foolishness with the "Dom-2" project.
I have always said that Ad-2 is already being built for the authors of this project in the underworld
But then what makes you do it?
- One percent of the population belongs to the so-called educated stratum. The rest are adequately represented on television only by "Dom-2". This is our country, and we have no other. You don't have to show them, as they urged not to show the "School" by Guy Germanicus. But they will not disappear from this. And in "House-2" they learn to at least feel and talk about these feelings at least clumsily.
They come out of there not so mucky. There is a tough selection system, and this always ennobles. Then, there is an intense love game (sometimes, by the way, not even a game). And love is the most important drainage channel for the horse's aggressive energy. Better if they build pairs and achieve reciprocity than kill each other. Loch in love is the pinnacle of the evolution of the species.
Fuck your feathers
Sometimes it seems to me that you are carrying out Putin's special assignment. All the negative energy of the country is distracted by you
- It seemed to me that it was entrusted to me and Mikhail Zurabov. Since he left as ambassador to Ukraine, I carry this cross alone.
Now it is clear who will replace Zurabov in Ukraine
- I don't exclude it. But if I really am called upon to divert the people's anger on myself - well, this is not the worst mission. I feed on negative energy. To be honest, when I am praised, I always see it as either a tough irony or a hidden setup.
It cannot be that general abuse gives you pleasure
- I'm just a symbol of everything that is hated by the average man in the street. And moreover, I'm not just embodying it - here comes a glamorous blonde. I know how to defend this, to argue, and this the man in the street can not stand at all.
Among the things that you personify, there is enough vulgarity
- Not at all. What is vulgarity? It is primitive, commonplace. The vulgarity is the same man in the street who hates me. And I personify the freedom of taste and choice.
But what does glamor have to do with taste?
- No, I'm not just glamor. Glamor, on the other hand, wants to please everyone. This is gloss, comme il faut, dress code - I break all conventions and more often than not I cannot stop. Sometimes I just carry, and then I ask myself: why the hell because of one broadcast to spoil relations with so many people? But this, you know, is like that crow from an anecdote: she was forbidden to swear and threatened that they would pull out all the feathers. She sits for three days and is silent, ruffled, and then begins to pluck herself furiously with a hoarse croak: "Fuck your feathers!" In general, I have little to do with the ugly phrase "socialite."
But in secular circles you still rotate
- Well, yes, because I am a mercantile girl, and it is more pleasant for me to ride on someone else's yacht in the company of other people's beautiful people than on my own hard-earned in the company of my own, but bald ones.
Do you agree with Fitzgerald that "the rich are not really people like us"?
- I agree, but even Fitzgerald himself did not give an answer - from what moment do these changes begin. The most important thing here is not to miss: what if you are with him, as with a superman, and he is still a man? But in general, to be honest, I am offended for the business elite. These are really tough people, and making money is a very special talent. Pelevin has the most accurate account of this in Friedman's Space, where he is about bablonauts: the sense of money is a special, sixth, kind of ear for music.
Come on, don't you know how these states were made …
- However, you and I for some reason did not make them, right? And if they now take everything away from them and throw it out into the street, they will rise, even if not in the same way as in the nineties. And after a while they will again attract money.
Do you have any favorites in the domestic business environment?
- The smartest of those whom I know - and I know, believe me, many - is definitely Mikhail Fridman.
But also the most closed
- I have been with him in different situations, saw, say, how on a tour of the Vatican he prompted the guide … In terms of breadth of interests and erudition - he is the first. And the closest to me in spirit is Mikhail Prokhorov. He is also very different from his public image. Nobody knows what is going on inside, but he can blurt out this! - just to surprise the same suckers or, say, snobs … Snob, to be honest, I have second place after sucker in terms of personal rejection. For a long time it seemed to me that you are of the same breed. Such priests are sitting, insanely pleased with themselves, if you say “ringing” in front of them or don't quote Brodsky - and that's it, you're not a man.
Nonsense. They hate me even more than fuckers
- Well, Prokhorov knows how to put them in their place. Here he is sponsoring a stunning performance by Mironov and Khamatova based on Shukshin. The theater-goer starts talking to him - all this with a breath - and waits for him to answer her with a breath: "Well, how?" And he: yes bullshit, and Chulpan's legs are not that, my heifers in Luzhki are much better …
This is a normal answer. Because in fact he is an understanding person and he does not have to breathe publicly. It is precisely the fake knowledge and prepared answers that are very visible: in the book I ask myself the question: what unites Kadyrov and Arshavin? They are most afraid of being asked about spiritual matters. And they have a list prepared: for those who ask it is simpler - a standard set. The poet is Pushkin, the fruit is an apple. For the more complicated - respectively, Dostoevsky, even, perhaps, Proust.
What are your feelings from Ramzan Kadyrov?
- At the first meeting, it was almost a shock: he was wearing such an American hat, only the inscription "September 11" was missing … When Ksenia Sokolova and I came to interview him, he behaved like a classic big child: he rode a Hummer, he was all like that he has red skin inside, Katya Lel plays … He showed the horses, then - wah, listen, now I'll hit the bull's-eye, wah, hit … In short, the girls have arrived, the girls need to be walked. But I understand perfectly well that this kind-hearted boletus is one step from the beast, and in Grozny, by the way, it is scary. So much so that Sokolova, not being my close friend, at night barefoot and in her pajamas came into my bedroom: "I can't alone." So they slept together.
But do you realize that he is a dangerous person?
- He's VERY dangerous.
Aren't you afraid to say this? Do you even mention him in the "Encyclopedia …"?
“I hope he, as a spiritual man, only reads H.G. Wells and will not pay attention to me. If you
run out of sausage - run
if you don't want to - don't answer, but how do you feel about the Putin phenomenon? Was an ordinary employee of the mayor's office, became a national leader …
- I will answer absolutely honestly: for me there is no rule about Plato, who is a friend, and the truth, which is dearer. For me, the person comes first. Putin was practically the only one who protected my father when he was being hounded. This excludes the possibility of any impartial feedback for me.
But do you see some kind of protest potential in the country?
- Not a certain one, but a huge one, because a pact has been concluded in the country: freedom in exchange for sausage. They got a sausage - they gave up freedom. According to Andropov. This pact will end exactly at the moment when the sausage ends. And therefore, when interruptions begin with it, it will be necessary to very quickly run towards the first Schengen country.
Can it end?
- Easily. This is all related to oil, and people are aware: look how many people are aware of oil prices. For example, my administrator is a 56-year-old woman who is extremely far from any business.
And what should the authorities do in this situation?
- And it’s not clear, because I don’t want to be in power (I don’t go there at all, by the way). We have to put pressure on the roots of any manifestations of opposition - and this is fraught; if you do not press, it is also fraught. It is only obvious that the very first economic pit will destroy this entire social contract.
You do not admit the revival of the USSR?
- Rather, I'm afraid that the disintegration would not go further. I am almost sure that we will lose the Caucasus during our lifetime.
By the way, who are you officially on your diploma?
- Specialist in International Relations, Diploma - Comparative Analysis of Presidency Institutions in France and Russia.
There was no case that Putin made you understand: Ksenia, don't do this, don't you need to?
- Well, if he let me know, I probably would know.
Do you feel state support for yourself?
- There would be state support - who would dare to scold me? But I repeat, it has been feeding me for a long time, I even fall into dependence on it. Not to mention the fact that Orlusha's poems “They gave me an inflatable Ksenia Sobchak for my birthday” generally seem genius to me. I wrote them down in my reading - I specially filmed the theater and read it on an empty stage, alone, in an expensive evening dress.
Expensive dress - even if, but why did you allow Bartenev to illustrate the "Encyclopedia of a Loch" with your naked photographs?
- Sells better. I say, I'm a mercantile girl. And I have no earnings, except for TV programs and journalism.
I can't imagine
old age - How do you imagine your old age?
- Sick question. I can't imagine. I'm not going to change my lifestyle anytime soon. I hate family values. I don't like children. All this will have to somehow pay off.
“Well, you don’t have to admit it. Negative energy can go off scale
- But it's fair! If I said that I did not love, and then somewhere secretly caught and ironed them - another matter. But if it's true? I do not know how to lie, in the sense that it turns out ugly. It is worth starting to play around, invent - everything is so unpresentable! But when I honestly confess something terrible - or beautiful - my eyes immediately burn!
I have long wanted to ask you: do you know Daria Zhukova?
- She was my close friend back in the days of a serious relationship with Marat Safin.
What, in your opinion, made Abramovich divorce his wife, destroy his family and choose Dasha?
- I want to say right away - I admire this step of Abramovich. Our elite is full of people sitting on two or three or four chairs. He made an honest choice, risky for his reputation - after all, he lives and does business in England, a country of conservative values … But he decided. And why - well, making money is pretty boring. You need a person who will lead you further, a person to whom you will come home from the office - and he will lead you on a visit to international bohemia. Dasha is very familiar with this bohemian. She has an extremely quick mind, natural, "from the belly." And Abramovich, as far as I know him, loves to expand boundaries - he is bored of doing the same thing, he needs new people, a new circle … She gave him a significant impetus.
That is, there is also a certain pragmatist on his part?
- But why? It's easy to fall in love with people like Dasha. But she is completely Western - she lived there for a long time, she looks at the world through other lenses. If I still have children and the country does not run out of sausage, I will not send them to study abroad, because they will come differently. Maybe kind. Maybe smiling. But here they will not understand anything.
On the question of children: who often grows up among the elite - majors or, on the contrary, glorious altruists who did not know the struggle for existence?
- Once at a time it is not necessary, but, in general, this is more a test than a bonus. The constant closeness of a significant person is rarely comfortable. Children are constantly trying to prove that they mean something in themselves. It turns out people like me. But my version is still nothing, but when drugs …
What is your scandal with the "Russian Pioneer"?
- Yes, not with the "Russian Pioneer", there I have everything in order, I write columns with great pleasure. I love journalism not for money, but for joy. And so in St. Petersburg we decided to read Nathan Dubovitskiy, presumably Vladislav Surkov, by the roles of "Okolonol".
Do you like the novel so much?
- Well, it’s smartly written. In places almost Pelevin.
- And now these readings are planned, and Andrei Ivanovich Kolesnikov, editor-in-chief of Pioneer, invites Valentina Matvienko, Vladislav Surkov and other top officials participating in the forum to the Mikhailovsky Theater - in short, a serious event. And then, literally a day before him, in the middle of the night, Andrei Ivanovich called me - I was at a loss: for what intimate purpose? And he says to me in an unkind voice: Ksenia, what have you written about Kekhman in the “Encyclopedia of a sucker”? Kekhman is the general director of the Mikhailovsky Theater, and he, therefore, set a condition for Kolesnikov: either Ksenia, or readings. I have there in the "Encyclopedia …" there is a chapter "Public sucker." And there the episode is retold: Kehman felt it was not enough to be the general director, and he decided to go on stage in the ballet "Cipollino" as Prince Lemon, to do a few steps. This video is on youtube, take a look. And he, can you imagine, was offended!But Kolesnikov didn’t turn me in, said: “We don’t bargain with blackmailers” - and canceled the event. It will now be in Moscow.
I wonder, but can you tell about your first love?
- Easily. Quite a traditional but turbulent story. Nineties, I am the mayor's daughter, and he is cool. Parents are terribly against it, it additionally warmed up. Such a passion was that oh-oh-oh. Then I moved to Moscow.
And he was killed
- No, thank God. Last year, I suddenly decided to shake things up with the old days, we saw each other. In Petersburg. And my mother, who was so against this relationship, now treats him well, he takes my grandmother to the dacha … You see, what's the point. It won't be like this anymore. Love is exhaustible. A certain amount of love has been released to a person, and either he will use up everything at once, or he will stretch it by several, or much by a little bit … But this is the only emotion that is extreme. Anger, say, is endless, and fear, and even joy, and even curiosity. But I'm afraid that now I simply may not be enough for one more very strong love. I even avoid it subconsciously.
- How do you get along?
- Dislike fuels.